OUTLAWS： WINEVILLE MURDERS
Stream Summary
This episode of Outlaws with Rebecca Hargraves and Devon Stack explores the
historical case of Gordon Stewart Northcott and the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders,
using it to discuss themes of genetic vs. environmental causes of behavior, institutionalization,
the death penalty, and broader “eugenic” or social-hygiene ideas. The hosts recount the timeline of
Northcott’s abuse of his cousin Sanford Clark, the kidnapping and murder of multiple boys including
Walter Collins and the Winslow brothers, the involvement of Northcott’s mother, the LAPD’s handling
of the Christine Collins case (and its later fictionalization in the film “Changeling”), and the
investigation, trials, and execution at San Quentin. They then pivot into a wider, often darkly
humorous discussion about mental illness, institutions, executions, racial and genetic questions,
media propaganda, and contemporary politics, while interacting extensively with live hyperchats and
super chats. The stream opens with a long personal story about Devon’s cat Churro’s medical emergency
and closes with community Q&A and scheduling/format updates for future shows.
Key Topics Discussed
- Health update and lore around Devon’s cat Churro and his emergency vet visit.
- Background of Gordon Stewart Northcott and the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders.
- Northcott’s childhood, his mother’s bizarre behavior (dressing him as a girl, obsession, complicity).
- Abduction, rape, and torture of cousin Sanford Clark on the isolated chicken farm.
- The “headless Mexican” victim, forensic limitations in 1920s California, and early press coverage.
- Kidnapping and murder of Walter Collins and the inaccurate portrayal in the film “Changeling”.
- LAPD corruption, desire for a “win,” and the substitution of a runaway boy as the supposed returned Walter.
- Institutionalization of Christine Collins, later lawsuit, and debate over whether police genuinely thought she was insane.
- Abduction and murder of the Winslow brothers, ransom-style letters, and escalating pressure on Northcott.
- Sanford’s sister’s suspicions, visit to the farm, and triggering of the immigration/LAPD investigation.
- Flight of Northcott and his mother to Canada, arrest, excavation of the ranch, and physical evidence found.
- Trials of Northcott and his mother; sentencing (death for him, life—later paroled—for her).
- Detailed contemporary newspaper account of Northcott’s hanging at San Quentin, including his failed suicide attempt and last-minute theatrics.
- Christine Collins’ continued belief that her son might still be alive and the psychology of denial in victim families.
- Debate over institutionalization, abuse of state power vs. necessity of institutions for the dangerously mentally ill.
- Arguments for harsh penalties and expansive use of the death penalty; discussions of “eugenics” and “undesirables.”
- Concerns about Jews’ role in dismantling capital punishment and institutions, and in shaping media narratives (per the hosts’ political framing).
- Streisand effect, meme prosecutions, and how censorship backfires (e.g., meme of a police officer as Jewish).
- Parallels to modern cases of violent mentally ill offenders being released or never incarcerated.
- Comparisons to other historical/fictional depictions of institutions (e.g., “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”).
- Segues into contemporary politics, race, crime, and “racial hygiene” ideas, including proposals for sterilization or execution of certain offenders.
- Light tangents: British censorship of children’s media titles, Star Trek: TNG, Red Letter Media, Alex Jones/InfoWars, and other pop-cultural references.
- Community interaction: extensive reading of entropy chats, Rumble rants, super chats; announcement of new show time and chat-reading policy.
Sources
Key Points of Wisdom
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[00:10:47] “When you actually dig into the primary sources, a lot of the popular narrative falls apart.”
Context: Discussion of how later retellings simplify or distort historical cases.
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[0:13:30] –
“The thing that you need to think about is her behavior in doing that… all that genetically driven behavior of hers, obviously, was inherited, and he inherited a lot of these psychotic behaviors that she will… it’ll get more extreme.”
Context: Devon arguing that Northcott’s mother’s extreme behavior is indicative of genetic predispositions that her son inherited, reinforcing his view of behavior as largely genetically driven.
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[0:30:45] –
“There are going to be these instances where people will… if we were to reinstitute [institutions], right?… sometimes you’d lock up someone that wasn’t really a nut case… That doesn’t mean you just take away the option to do something, because it’s occasionally abused.”
Context: Defense of having institutionalization powers despite inevitable abuses, with an analogy to how prisons are also sometimes misused but still necessary.
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[00:39:23] “Institutional power doesn’t disappear just because you pretend it can’t be abused.”
Context: Commentary on psychiatric commitment and state authority.
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[0:47:59] –
“I’m sure if we had the death penalty as liberally applied as I would like it to be, we’d be killing innocent people from time to time. Worth it? Totally worth it.”
Context: Provocative articulation of a utilitarian view that prioritizes overall deterrence and removal of dangerous individuals over the risk of some wrongful executions.
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[0:51:44] –
“What’s the upshot of keeping them in an institution… Why are you paying to store that guy, put him on ice somewhere, like in some room with a bunch of coloring books? There’s literally no upshot for me… So let’s just get rid of him.”
Context: Argument that life-long institutionalization of certain violent psychotics serves no social benefit compared with execution.
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[1:03:40] –
“The whole thing was… ‘well, you don’t know what it’s like, don’t blame the victims.’… That’s not just like a free pass to do whatever the fuck you want… you don’t get to, ‘oh, you were raped in the ass with a broomstick, well then murder all the kids you want.’”
Context: Devon rejecting the idea that extreme victimization fully excuses later participation in atrocities (aimed at Sanford Clark’s culpability).
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[1:39:20] –
“If you commit a crime that is so outside the norm that a reasonable person can’t even put themselves in your shoes, then you don’t belong in that society… by keeping people like that in your society, you’re propagating those genes.”
Context: Core “eugenic” principle Devon advances: certain extreme offenders should be permanently removed to prevent both harm and genetic propagation.
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[1:52:31] –
“It used to be so much fun… you could just wake up, I remember sometimes just waking up and I’d have a video that had 500,000 views.”
Context: Reflection on the early, less-censored internet era, contrasting it with current algorithmic suppression and deplatforming.
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[2:21:56] –
“Women are really into poisoning.”
Context: Tongue-in-cheek observation in a brainstorming riff about making executions more palatable and “fancy” for female spectators, pointing to traditional gendered crime patterns.
Hyperchat Highlights
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[1:44:39] herp. derp:
longtime listener and all that jazz. (Very generous entropy chat; short message.)
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[1:44:39] Ford enthusiast:
Let’s pour one out for Peter, who screeches all night. (Reference to a previous insomnia stream case.)
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[1:47:28] likes to watch:
continuing to pay what I owe for the backlog of great material from both of you, hope you are doing well.
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[1:48:06] TMK1335:
blonde, epic collab idea: you, Devon and Mike Stoklasa. Team up for a 13 hour live review of Europa, the last battle. I like to think Mike is secretly based.
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[1:49:30] truffle B:
keep up the good work, get well soon Churro.
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[1:50:16] Richard1387:
Devon, you raised a good point in the previous stream about people not liking the police just because they got caught with weed that one time when they were 16… We hate them for cool nationalist ones. We are not the same. Thanks for the show, folks.
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[1:52:56] the supreme Rabbi Satan:
blonde, which part of Missouri were you from? Why did you leave? Would you go back? What are the pros and cons of Missouri?
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[1:53:53] Reinhardt1488:
just want to second the idea of a marathon or a multi part view of Europa the last battle. Love it.
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[1:56:21] superDaphne:
We love the new show. (Very generous donation; identified by Rebecca as her mom.)
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[1:56:54] real Starfish Prime:
Last insomnia stream premiered far too late for US East Coasters to donate before the show started. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
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[1:58:04] cage motion juro:
those 12 minutes of hanging are nothing to what he did to those boys.
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[1:58:41] likes to watch (Rumble):
(Generous donation) – continuing to support both of you; backlog of great material.
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[1:59:10] TMK1335 (Rumble):
AA said your style is “lo-fi”; also suggests RL Running Man pay-per-view style executions.
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[2:00:21] Evan626:
(Multiple sequential small donations outlining a long point about SCOTUS, Jews, and the death penalty being made onerous to thwart white Gentile will to execute criminals.)
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[2:01:33] ghost dog man:
we all pitched in to make this dono in honor of the dearly departed retarded faggot. (Crude joke about a referenced case.)
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[2:02:37] book track grooves:
blonde, how do we send you stories? Devon, when is the fundraiser for the new horse?
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[2:03:45] cage motion juro:
ever done an Africa audio stream? AmRen just dropped a great podcast about it.
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[2:04:27] Evergreen dream:
was having a hectic day at work and missed the stream. We’ll catch the replay.
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[2:05:21] FlankerVT (as “flank vert” corrected):
just wanted to say “dirt meat” is still one of the best historical films I’ve ever seen, looking forward to buying a t shirt when it’s available.
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[2:05:56] Ray fleck:
thanks for all of your efforts over the years. Both of you keep up the great work.
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[2:06:41] mo jack:
got here way too late, so I think I’ll just watch the replay. I’m sure it’ll be a great show as always. Oh, and Dave is a dick.
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[2:07:45] whiteXpilled:
just showing some support for two of the best around.
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[2:09:10] TMK1335 (second time):
APE boy can get in the roof hole.
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[2:10:21] uncle Vinnie:
look up virilization and congenital adrenal hyperplasia; Jews have higher genetic tendencies; example Andrea Dworkin, etc.
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[2:11:24] Evergreen dream (second time):
I think Pluto is a pun on clue and Ludo.
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[2:11:59] FUBAR nation:
YouTube chat needs a mod.
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[2:13:24] The Man Himself (JS / JF):
Great job as usual. How are you sure the pit solution is not derived from sadism? How can we make sure it wouldn’t devolve into that?
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[2:15:28] propaganda:
(YouTube super chat, no note – just support.)
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[2:15:28] scribble saga:
(YouTube super chat, no note – just support.)
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[2:15:28] Jacob Winkelman:
going through LP stuff… asks about James Fishback/Destiny Jubilee clip, LP stream context; later suggests Emily Youkas + Devon + Rebecca crossover.
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[2:15:57] la chance:
that kind of loving turns a man into a slave… (Aerosmith lyric); anecdote about JF singing Aerosmith and inviting her to his “harem.”
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[2:28:22] Big Mad Lad:
are we going to do weekly shows with Cam too? I love the new shows… they’re so much better without Fuentes simp Dave.
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[2:29:51] Matt Bell:
Hi, Rebecca. I’m sure I’ve heard of this Canadian freak before. Wasn’t he related to the Quebecois Gaspé family? (Also asks if pale siren girl was based on Rebecca.)
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[2:30:50] Michael Ellis:
buy the cat a chocolate mouse or something.
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[2:31:05] Balkan Phoenix:
here’s some coffee money. Thank you both for all that you do. Devon is a legend and Rebecca is beautiful and based, great combo.
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[2:31:55] Ryan White:
awesome show. Great job. Mental illness is rampant today, partially because these mutts were left to breed. What role do you think TV and movies have played in modern mental dysfunction?
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[2:32:56] Big Mad Lad (second):
another note about the new shows and ditching Fuentes simp Dave; support for the Reset show with Cam.
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[2:33:28] Destined to be different:
Hi (and separate super chat repeating “Hi”); general support.
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[2:33:28] Maui County GIS:
said Devon is one of the best. (Rebecca relays/thanks.)
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[2:33:53] Funding in circles:
blonde, don’t let people mislabel Data in Star Trek TNG episode 3x22 “The Most Toys”… (nerdy elaboration on episode plot).
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[2:34:51] Captain base:
(YouTube super chat, no note – just support.)
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[2:35:22] Destined to be different (again):
what made you choose the chicken coop murder story?
Hyperchat Contributors
These usernames sent paid comments (hyperchats, Rumble rants, Super Chats, Entropy chats, etc.) during the stream:
- herp. derp
- Ford enthusiast
- likes to watch
- TMK1335
- truffle B
- Richard1387
- the supreme Rabbi Satan
- Reinhardt1488
- superDaphne
- real Starfish Prime
- cage motion juro
- Evergreen dream
- FlankerVT (flank vert)
- Ray fleck
- mo jack
- whiteXpilled
- uncle Vinnie
- FUBAR nation
- The Man Himself (JF/JS)
- Evan626
- ghost dog man
- book track grooves
- Spy guy 89
- Ray fleck
- Realfish Prime / Real Starfish Prime
- propaganda
- scribble saga
- Jacob Winkelman
- la chance
- Matt Bell
- Michael Ellis
- Balkan Phoenix
- Ryan White
- Big Mad Lad
- Destined to be different
- Maui County GIS
- Funding in circles
- Captain base
- Ray fleck
- mo jack